I am not going to get into the debate of Evolution/Creationism/Intelligent
Design/Big Bang/etc etc... but I will point out a very troubling statement that
you made, Glen...



"It is also why I don't bother with converting you." You have placed
yourself in the Throne of Grace and now YOU have the power to convert people?



Also, no matter a persons view on a certain subject... you are to show them the
love of Christ.... not stoop to childish/playground antics and playing tit for
tat. If you are as you claim to be... (a Christian) then you need to ask God to
work on your hard heart.



As for, Antitheist...everyone is entitled to their opinion. The fact that you
see "religion" as people trying to get your money instead of
Christianity being God coming to man for your HEART....IMO, is the problem.



As "they" say, "Never say never." I was in the same boat not
to...

"It is also why I don't bother with converting you." You have placed

yourself in the Throne of Grace and now YOU have the power to convert people?



To whom it may concern: I don't place myself on the throne of grace. If you
have read through A-1's posts you will have seen he has accepted Christ and
subsequently rejected Him. There is no path for HIm. God will not be mocked.
And A-1 has passed beyond the point of no return. My part in the conversion is
to witness TO the work Jesus has done. Nothing more. The rest is up to Him And
the person He is calling.

if comfort and dawkins did debate dawkins would absolutely own comfort. easily.
i would give anything to see that.

well if you people don't think Ray knows what he is talking about then check out
these guys



Dr. Kent Hovind or Dr. Roger Oakland



Both have phd's in biology

...Ray knows [removed] well that he's talking about! I also think that it's far
more profitable for him to ignore what he knows. But I will check out the guys
you have listed here, do they have a specific site I should check out, or should
I just google it?

I got censored there. I didn't think I used a word all that bad, but I'll be
more stringent on my language in the future. Sorry about that, guys!

'Dr.' Kent Hovind? The same Kent Hovind who is currently serving 10 years for
tax evasion and fraud? The same Kent Hovind who despite being scientifically
illiterate (concerning the bare minimums such as the definitions of theories and
laws" claims to have taught high school for 15 years with zero evidence?

If you are seriously referencing Kent Hovind to back up Ray Comfort...
Yeah I am just speechless.

...from Douglas Adams.



"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith,
and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "the Babel
fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It
proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that" and promptly
vanishes in a puff of logic."

Anti this is a great little gem to keep you right where you are and you have
loved it as your first born. Enjoy it. Love it well. It is all that you have
and will ever have.

This little diatrible is just that nothing but empty words.

I refuse to prove that I exist is stupiod because He came in the flesh. Making
this statement completely false.

...they recently dug up a bowl of noodles in china. Nothing special about
noodles, but these were 4000 years old. jesus was supposedly around half that
time ago, and despite literally MILLIONS of dollars spent trying to prove he
existed...nothing. Every single 'artifact' showing there was a jesus has been
proven to be a forgery. All of them.



While I'm quite sure that triceratops had no reason at all to doubt the
existence of T-Rex, rational people require proof that they can see. The best
we can PROVE about jesus is that someone wrote a story about him. Someone also
wrote a story about Darth Vader.

What about Jimmy Hoffa? Huh? Yea whatever!

Also, there are very, very accepted secular histroy authors that wrote about
Jesus of Nazareth (Find your own'cause life is not fair). If you are looking for
a body you won't find it. If you are looking for other things I suppose they
have either been kept behind closed doors or were destroyed by time. The cross
beam was most likely used for another killing by the Romans. His clothes were
distributed between the Soldiers to wear. The burial cloth is an interesting
thing but does not seem to be left. Some think the shroud of Turin is it. But
I am not sure. Besides, I don't require a cloth to prove Jesus is who He says
He is. Sight is the weakest of proof any rational person would know that.

Is the weakest of proof? Of course! Why didn't I think of that? That explains
why you haven't actually read that book of yours! It's so BLINDINGLY obvious!



I, however, do require proof, which you have not supplied. Which you cannot
supply. You have none. Which is why you so conveniently skirt the tough
questions.

I'm seeing a number of people making the claim that evolution is as faith-based
as any religion. To refute this, I offer some published journal papers (fresh
from Google Scholar) from experiments conducted on the topic of evolution.

These will be fairly dense reading, but anyone who chooses to not even look at
them and continue to repeat the claims that evolution has never been observed in
a laboratory, that there is no evidence for it, you should know that you are
being a willful ignorant and a coward.

http://personales.upv.es/sfelena/Nature%20Rev.%20G enetics%201.pdf

http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:I6sKzm2VWhsJ
:scholar.google.com/+evolution+experiment&hl=en&as _sdt=2000 (html page for the
above .pdf link)

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/24/9107.full

Tom, i have not read these technical papers. But there is one thing that stands
out like a sore thumb. This evolution takes place over millinea how can it be
accomplished in a lab is a very, very, very, short time span? This is not
evolution but adaptation.

Also, I am sure you have encountered this one too. This evolutionary process
was thought up and started by an intelligent agent, the scientist, and would
never have happened without him or her. It is directed by the intelligence. So
you are providing proof of intelligent design.

Well, due to the time issue, the subjects of evolutionary experiments are
usually bacteria. I've heard of some others using fish and other larger animals,
but the advantage of bacteria is that they have extremely short lifespans. The
first link describes one experiment that tracked 20 000 generations of E.Coli.

Also, evolution by natural selection IS adaptation. The phrase is Adaptive
Evolution, it's when genetic variances appear within an organism that allow that
organism to better adapt to environmental pressures. That organism will be more
likely to survive than other members of its species, and pass on these
advantageous genes. Yes, it would take millions of years for adaptive processes
to result in entirely different species, but adaptation is still evolution.

20,000 generations...this is how science masks truth. Looky here...it take on
average 30 minutes for a bacterium to divide. That is one generation. So
30min/generation X 20,000 generations = 600,000 minutes. Now there are 60
minutes/hour so 600,000/60 = 10,000 hours. now we also know there are 24 hours
in a day so 10,000/24 = 416.7 days. nice. now there are 365 days/year. so
416.7/365 = 1.14 years. So we have used scientific method to remove millenia to
1.14 years. let us now divide 1 year by this milenia number and see what we
get...it is very small. so small as to be ignored. Please someone try it
please. Science pins its greatest concusion on an infinitely small number. funny
really.

As for your last claim, the experiment had an intelligent designer, but the
results did not. They were the result of natural laws working within the
confines of the experiment. I don't know if you were just being a bit facetious
there, or if you actually believe it, but that is illogical.

What is done in these experiments usually, is that 12 cultures of bacteria from
1 common ancestor are placed in environments with a differing level of
environmental pressure. Bacteria can grow to maturity in a day, so you can go
through 7 generations in one week. After thousands of generations they examine
the genotype to see if environmental pressure led to genetic change. There is a
description of a really great experiment along these lines in 'The Greatest Show
On Earth,' if you care to find a copy.

It is not illogical. Because you cannot see it you then call a name for it so
you don't appear without understanding. Nevertheless an intelligent designer
made it happen regardless.

Finally are they something other than bacteria? Did these guys create a new
thing that is not just the same old bacteria?

Really man you are covered in this net that will not allow you to see they did
not do anything. Most certainly not evloution because evolution takes just as
long in the petri dish as it does for the complex guy. Milenia. Adaptation is
NOT evolution. Here's why how long will it take for them to return to their
original state? A new species cannot return by evolutionary theory rule.

As for being willfully ignorant and a coward...Is this where is am supposed to
get angry and stomp around yelling at you? PLease. Save you name calling for
someone that requires your honor and respect. I find it completely childish.

Now for faith in evolution. If you are not claiming to have fith in it rthen why
are you preaching it? Rather silly. Of corse you are going to cite that you
have proof rather tahn faith. That too is not true. THere are no transitional
forms of any animals or man. All of them are fully formed. Nothing to be found
transitioning between of form and another. All completely compartmentalized
within thier own taxa.

Yeah, that was childish. I didn't intend to lower myself to name-calling. It's
just frustrating that you're so close to getting it, but those mental barriers
are causing you to shy away at the end.

Actually, I give up. I was trying to deliver a concise explanation of the entire
theory, but it's far easier to just agree with you. You're right. Those
experiments only showed adaptation, not evolution, which is entirely different
for reasons that I'm sure someone will be able to explain to me. Praise the Lord
for the infinite complexity of his almighty Creation.

Yeah, I could get used to this.

I already did explain it to you. With adaptation the specimin can easily and
readily return to Wild type. The specimin actually prefers the ease of the WT
state. With this 'evolutionary' change they cannot ever go back. They have
become entirely different. They have entered into their own arena of Wild type
and cannot return to the former wild type status, ever.

Let us see here. Hmmm sight is not weak.

What about these guys called illusionists? Or What about those drawings that one
can see two distict immages in. or those ink blot tests that are nothing but our
minds declare that there is something. What about sticking a straight stick into
water and seeing it be bent?Etc.

Sight can easily be tricked.

Lastly what about the bending of light by the heating of road sufaces causing
the illution of water on the road far off in the distance.

to save your soul from eternal hell. I want to tell you that God exists.if you
just seek him. How do you do that? Well there is only one way. With your whole
heart. that can only happen when believe in his existance. He will not reveal
Himself if there is no believe (faith). why not take the chance,try. You have
nothing to lose.Only when you believe and seek him personally, This is a
Promise,you will find him.when you are alone call out to him. This is The Only
chance you have to know if he truly exists. Jesus is The one who said that He
didnt come to bring peace in this world,thats why you wont find it here, no one
will only in heaven it is and Jesus is the only Way to Heaven.I am from South
Africa, still young. I got saved by God's Grace 2 years ago.I hope this changes
something in you through the power of God

...does not exist. I've sought. All I've found are people who want to take my
money. And other people willing to kill me if I don't believe in their
particular flavour of god.



I hope this helps other people out there who are questioning the religion they
have been brought up in to realize that it is OK to be an atheist. There is
nothing wrong with it, and we can be good people and have fulfilling (and 10%
wealthier!) lives.

> There is no evidence for species to species transitional forms in the fossil
-
Natural history museums the world over are stuffed full of them: here are a few
to be going on with:
Archaeopteryx
Tiktaalik
Ambulocetus
Australopithecus africanus
-
> what is widely believed among evolutionists--that nothing created everything
-
No - evolutionist know (not believe) decent with modification. For 'nothing
created everything' (as in the Big Bang) I suggest Ray Comfort discusses this
with cosmologist like Michio Kaku, Stephen Hawking, Roger Penrose et al.
-
LJS.

I find this almost funny, if it didn't scare me to death. Yes, Dawkins is an
atheist. So what. He also happens to be a professional, respected and extremely
well educated biologist. With all due respect Mr. Comfort, until you earn a
several degrees in biology and work as a researcher for 20 or 30 years, you have
no right to write or edit (manipulate) a biology book and expect it to hold any
worth. Leave that to the biological experts, and yes, Richard Dawkins has the
expertise in that field. End of story. I, as an admirer of the natural world,
highly recommend THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH...

Anti-theist1 or Andy1968 or Andy Duchemin, or damned by Glen1, (whichever
cognomen you choose)



I have been investigating Primary causality. It leads to nice conclusions about
you and your lot. I do see that in light of my abscence you have been activly
pursuing others with the same agregious spirit. My conclusions about you are
correct. You will not repent. As a result, there is no use in continuing our
discussions.

By the way, I would no more ask for your involment in any good works I do than I
would ask say Osama Bin Laden.

You are indeed pathetic.

Comparing an atheist to Bin Laden is the reason I'm here. No, I'll never
convert to your religion. Ever. But I do have a voice, and a legal right to
use it, just as you have a legal right to not listen. I'll defend both.

What you HAVE managed to do, during my time talking with you, is convince me of
just how biggotted some people are. There ARE religious-types here that have
asked me questions, which I have answered honestly. YOU, just sat and stewed in
your own self-absorbed, self-described, self-appointed righteousness, insulting
me, threatening me, and condemning me.

Well, I'm still here. And I'm still speaking for a little rationality in the
world. And you don't have the power, G-man, to tell me not to. Sorry you won't
even accept an offer of cooperation. Convert or die, eh? That was my point to
begin with. Fool.

I know you will never convert to Jesus of Nazareth. You are seared. It is
impossible for you to come. You are not giving me any novel information. It is
also why I don't bother with converting you. I simply point out the falsehood
in you and your arguements. Sometimes I even make fun of you. Probably to my
shame but it is just too easy.

I am sooo sorry for you. Pity is where I am now for you. And there is nothing
that can be done.

Oh yeah, and every agent of causality you can cite is entirely conditional.
I've only shown you the logical flaws. I note how you've so expertly ducked the
logic via use of continued logical fallacies, favouring
'red-herring,''slippery-slope,'and,'straw-man.' When those are called to your
attention, you just ignore that the argument has been made.

If (see? 'If' is known as a 'condition!') that's what kind of science you do,
then ('then' is what's called a consequence!) I question your ability to conduct
unbiased studies, and recommend you choose another career path.

So, if you're right, that means that god wants me tortured for all eternity. If
I'm right, then the end is the same for all of us, and that's just nature.

Conditional...as if antitheists statements were not conditional. Very comical
and self comdemning for antitheist.

See if one condemns me for any contional statemnts I make then it follows that
the other's conditional statements become suspect and fall into the same
condemnation. THis leads to a complete failure of communication. and dialogue
stops.

Anti wants to call out logical fallacies but gets mad when the same is deemed
true for his statements. He'll use jargon like red herring or slippery slope and
straw man to also duck issues.

No, God does not want yuo to be tortured for all eternity that's why he came
here to pay the price for you.



blind

...I've not heard from you in a while. So I'm wondering; did you take what I
said to heart and actually decide to go out and do some real good in the world?
While our philosophies do not agree, I have to admit a deep respect for anyone
who put thier money where thier mouth is.

So, if you're out there actually trying to help people, drop me a line, I'd be
glad to join you.

While we come from opposing ends of the spectrum, I would be touched to hear of
you doing those things that need to be done. Grab a brick, set it down, repeat
until you have a house. If that's where you went, good on ya!

...Glen's above post, I must sadly report that there seems to be a sad lack in
good will when it comes to doing things that actually help people. I guess
that, according to Glen, I'm on a par with Osama Bin Laden.

And, for the record, if I held the door for your mother, would you prevent me
from doing so?

christians do not have a monopoly on helping people. Heck, they don't even have
a controlling interest. For that matter, I'm beginning to think that they don't
have an interest at all. At least not the one here who was first to condemn
me...

I did not condemn you! I have not the power to do that. You did that. All I have
done is point it out.

You are right that Christains don't have a monopoly on helping people but we do
have the monopoly on the testamony to the One that can save you. No other group
can. Because they don't recognize Jesus of Nazareth.

So you only attempt to criticise Christans from helping people. Look again.
Christian groups are everywhere helping where no one else will go. Helping
people is not the goal it is the side effect of gaining God. We love.

Yup. There is a theory out there regarding experimentations with quantum
vacuums, which seem to be able to produce huge amounts of energy out of this
air. Check it out on wikipedia, it's worth the read.

Listening to Ray Comfort just about makes me ashamed to be a Kiwi,It it is
beyond me how how people can believe so much drivel.He has nothing to support
his claims,he and he doesn't even understand the basics of what he is speaking
about.Ray Comfort is NOT represenitive of NZ education.You probably haven't
noticed but he needed to come to the US to find enought idiots to follow him.

PS. evolution is not faith based it is demonstratable science

Faith: confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthyness of a person
(Darwin), idea (evolution), or thing (missing link/transitional form).



Many of the dictionary deffinitions of this word are angeled toward religious
observances. One is given as a woman's name. This one however does not, as are
several others in this line of the deffinition. But I am gonna get butchered
over cherry picking aren't I?

YES! Much of our culture is geared towards religious stuff, especially
christianity. I'm sure this is great news for ya, G-man, as you already seem to
have the framework in place for a resurgence of good bible based American
Taliban-style government, eh?



Except that:



Faith, n. the assent of mind to what is stated or put forward by another.
-Cassel Encyclopaedia Dictionary.



Nothing in there about 'truth.'

Truth=an obvious or accepted fact; agreement with a standard or original

assent=agreement, as to a proposal; concurrence



If science can only agree on a lie then what good is science?

demonstratable science- oh yeah,

The definition of science is "knowledge attained through study or
practice,"

Science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge. This system uses observation
and experimentation to describe and explain natural phenomena. The term science
also refers to the organized body of knowledge people have gained using that
system. Less formally, the word science often describes any systematic field of
study or the knowledge gained from it.

Both evolution and christianity require faith.

The question is : What is the object of your faith ?

It is obvious you have been hurt to have such animosity in your respons, I am
sorry for your pain. To criticize those who choose to follow what Ray Comfort
teaches... is hypocritical and hatefull. The one thing that you prized in your
comment is using your own ability & intellect to free you from your supposed
bondage of christianity. But you refuse to offer the same opportunity to those
on this site to make that same personal choice. Instead you have come on a site,
and spewed out your hatred all in the name of showing off your intellectual
prowess and degrading those who humbly believe that Christ redeemed us. God
loves you Nicole even in your hatred He loves you and believe it or not even
though I donot know you, I love you because Christ compells us to love and pray
for those who revile us, and I will be praying for you! God bless you!

...how do you claim to love someone if you are compelled to do so? That's
pretty much the legal definition of assault! There's no hypocracy in criticism,
rather there's great honesty and courage in coming to a site like this and
speaking our minds. What Ray distributed was every bit as hateful, and it has
zero evidence. I do not want my children to be forced to learn the bible as
though it were fact, because I do not believe in it, and have reason to believe
that it is in fact harmful.



No rational athiest (or even antitheist, such as myself) would hate the people
in a religion (and Steve, calling people idiots isn't helpful, even if the dogma
is contemptuous), but rather we are expressing our frustration at dogma's power
to cause total denial of overwhelming evidence. Evolution is easy to disprove.
Just find me a fossil rabbit in the precambrian strata, and I will be forced to
abandon my current model. What...

...would prove to you that your theory is wrong?

to exert a strong irreistable force on; ie sway.



Legal: to cause to do or occur by overwhelming pressure esp. by authority or
law.



Many of the definitions include a violence to them But these two do not. Note
the legal definition says nothing about being assaulted into this. It does say
authority. The authority Tina is refering to is something you don't know. You
cannot speak on it as a result. Since you can nither prove or test it. So you
Must cease and desist by your own authoritative proclamations. Elswise be a
hypocrite.



Heel boy!

Good point there. Compel is the wrong word, isn't it? Maybe demand, threaten,
force etc. would work better. I'm pretty sure that demanding love or promising
everlasting torture constitutes a pretty serious transgression. But it's OK,
'cause it's jeebus, right?

You're such a good boy. Now all we gotta do is fix that drooling. Compel is
the right word. For you not so much. Since you have been condemned by your own
actions. There is no demand. The everlasting tortue is just. And by whose
authority do you claim these judgements to be a transgression? But it's okay.
You will never, ever get to taste it again. And that makes me very sad.

You sure seem to love rubbing it in! But I ask you, where's the justice in
EVERLASTING TORTURE for, say, eating a burger on Friday? Or having a threesome?




And by whose authority do you claim to know the contents of my life? Do you
actually believe that a being who controls galaxies would really care if you
were a Buddhist? And where is the justice in allowing Josef Mengele (who sewed
children together without anesthetic and bragged about making 'Siamese Twins,'
but was a good Catholic) into heaven, while denying Ghandi?



Keep threatening me, it proves your godliness.

Still no threats. The only content of your life I know about is that which you
have exposed here! The first comandent. Justified through faith righteousness
is a gift. God is soverign. I am not gonna question HIm. You can help
yourself to that. Knock yourself out! not that any of it will do you any good.
But thar ya gooooooo.

...the real word is 'commanded.' Thanks for clearing that up.

No the word is still compelled.

And I quote, on the topic of threats:

"Anyone that rebells against God is

His enemy!" and, "The everlasting tortue is just." and, "you'd
rather be burned unquencably, soured sulfer smelled to the point of vomiting
unquencably, and be seared with hate unquencably than to listen to

these putative ignorant fools try to save you from it? (again, all errors were
cut-and-pasted directly from your posts)"

Then, in the above post, you asserted that there were, "Still no threats.

And so again, having presented my case, I put forth the motion that YOU, GLEN,
ARE A LIAR!

...we can say that Glen is incapable of actually defending a position. He
attacks, but will never take an assault through to it's conclusion. I must say
that Glen seems to have a very good understanding of scientific issues, but
can't admit when simple counting proves his bible wrong (and it does. Over and
over and over and over. There is no science in which counting will not disprove
the litteral interpretation of the bible).

I'm sorry that you can't count, Glen. You obviously know enough about real
science to know what I mean here.

I work with science that gets results, NOW. There's no room for interpretation
in the real world. Count. Do. Result.

I hate to have to say this, but you, Glen, having evaded everything difficult
for you to explain without counting, are...a coward.

OOOOOOOH nooo! I'm a coward. Big dael? is that the only point you have? the
very best? An argument toward the man? Ad Homenim? OOOOOO This is where I am
supposed to get mad, right? Stop my feet and start yelling, "How dare
you!"

Comical actually.

THere is no position to defend with you.

Oh yea and I cannot count either. LOL silly really.

I have just read the book, and found it excellent. It seems to me (and to what
is now the MAJORITY of people) that those particular people Dawkins calls
'history deniers' have managed to put all thier reasons for denial into ONE
single argument which may start at any given point but always ends the same way;
"the bible (deliberate use of small letters here) is right because I say
so!"



Ordinarily, I wouldn't care one whit what people who so flagrantly deny that
which is so blatanly in front of thier noses (deny that cars exist all you want,
you still run the risk of being hit by one) except that these purveyors of
misinformation and factless speculation are attempting to legislate the
undemocratic FORCING of belief in something that is blatantly NOT true
(Creationist dogma) on my children. If the teaching of Evolutionism must be
given 'equal time' in classrooms then, to be fair, we must give the same time...

The bible is right not because I say so but because God and His continual works
say so. All I do is witness to it. A christian's witness is disliked by you
because it forces you to measure yourself in a way demonstrating the truth about
yourself. And you don't like that truth. So you get angry and hate comes out.
Big deal. Nothin' new. And no one is forcing you to do anything. It is still
your choice. Factless speculation is a very funny statement originating from a
evoutionist. Again another superior intellect capable of only being able to
call people names rather than conversing rationally. I can see much more
clearly now how I have been set apart. I come from God while the evolutionist
come from a common ancestor that looks more like a Lemur? not a Chimp or a
Gorilla? The most recent discovery says so, right?

...is god? When you actually view the evidence (Try the title book of this
thread; I've read yours!) you cannot refute the evidence with any logic other
than what you just presented - none. You say that science cannot show evolution
taking place (which it CAN! YOU simply refuse to look, blinded by all your
'witlessing') and I counter by asking you to show me this god guy creating
something.



Just admit that 'faith' really translates as 'I don't know.' At least I admit
the fact and search for answers, while you just shrug and say you have 'faith'
while you refuse to learn. Evolution is proven without even needing to resort
to fossils, which we have anyways...

I loved the witless comment by the way cute but innefective. So, my witness to
show you this god guy is for you to look in the mirror. The man you see is
alive only because there is a Creator God that made him. And no you are not the
creator God. Now about that learning bussiness...Hmmm that is a seperate issue.
Learning is great. I love learning stuff. All kinds of stuff. Learning new
stuff does nothing at all to negate the Creator God. In fact, one should be
shored up by the things learned. I particularly like electricity that allows me
to chase you around.

I looked. I saw me. No god.



To assert that god did something is still not showing me god! That's showing me
ME!



But keep trying! Waiting for a single, provable FACT to come into your
argument! You're smart enough! Go Glen Go!

Dan, I did not tell you that you'r see God in the mirror. I told you that you
would see evidence for God in the mirror. Now you are evidence even though you
disregard it. Even unto your death shall you proclaim independence from God,
even unto the firey pit will you cast your hate towards Him.

Really had you read the post you would have seen the difference. I gave just
one. Should I give you more you will disrearg them too. You are never, ever
going to see the light. For that I am truely sorry.

God had no problems showing proof to guys like Moses, Elijah, and even good ol'
Thomas (patron saint of scientists). I think I kind of have to go with them on
this one.



You're not sorry at all. You're revelling in your righteousness.

I am greatful not reveling. I am truely sorry but there is nothing I can do for
you.

God has told us He will show Himself to the pure of heart. Jesus is the only
way to do that. So why are you so upset that you have not seen Him. You don't
even belive He exists But you talk about Him all the time. That is profoundly
odd to me. You even said you have traveled extensively to do so. Again very
odd behavior for someone that does not believe Yaweh.

You know, you're dead right on that. It is odd (I never claimed to be normal)
to study something if that something is not cared about. It is odd to spend
great deals of time and money to find out all that can be found about it. It is
odd to speak of it often.



Unless you're convinced that it presents a very real and present danger. Then
knowledge may be the only thing that can protect you.

Clear and present danger? You're joking right? God is presenting a real and
present danger to you? Ha! oh, yea! God does not endanger you it's religion.
I forgot. God is cool. It's man you have a problem with. Now I want to know
what part of Hinduism threatens you as a clear and present danger? Then
Buddism? Then Judaism? Then Baalism? Then Andy' golden calfism? so on and so
forth.

Then I want to know what is the danger? Really? WHat is it about Christianity
is "Dangerous" for you? What is it going to take away from you that you
fear it so badly?

I've said it before; there is no god. As such, there is no danger from him,
unless I believe YOU, in which case god hates me and wants me tortured for all
eternity.

Religion, on the other hand, has taken more from me than I care to tell you, and
tries to take more every day. Which religion is it that you feel has not
resulted in mass slaughter? Surprizingly, even shinto and buddhism have been
used to that end! There is no religion of real peace that I have found, and
none that is not dangerous. Religions kill people. I am a 'people.' Is that
not enough to take action?

I find A-1's charge of toture by God to be very revealing. In the synagog when
the demon possesed man spoke to jesus the first thing it did was identify Jesus
and the second thing was to ask if Jesus was here to TORTURE them. Hmmm demons
know God only as the torturer. God's children know Him as thier savior,
protector and father. Pay very close attention to the words spoken by those
under the control of darkness and they will tell you all you need to know.

I quote from the above:

"So, my witness to

show you this god guy is for you to look in the mirror."

In your next post, you stated:

"I did not tell you that you'r see God in the mirror.(Spelling mistakes are
your own)"

And so, with my case presented, I can actually make the claim that YOU, GLEN,
ARE A LIAR!

A-1 clipped my quote to benefit his answer. I told him he'd see evidence in the
miiror for God. Look up severl dialogue boxes if you are interested in the
truth about what I said.

Elsewise believe the lie.

I was indeed particularly proud of that pun. Thanks for noticing! It makes me
think you really care!

One of the most important concealed facts of contemporary biblical implication,
is the clammering intellectual frauds, of which literally puts to rest Malichi's
warning four

hundreds before Christ, Esau's problem with his

twin brother Jacob. Multitudes of pseudo religious functionaries througout
America have

been subtly brainwashed, in fear of loosing their moneyed influential
positions.



Absolutely, this wide spread properganda is a before hand method in shielding
the enemies of

Christ. Literally hundreds of clergy-- any and all denominations harbor
deep-seated fear

as to the ongoings of Esau the RED, father of moderday descendants of ancient
Edomites.



Esau, this father of the Edomites was not of Jewish lineage. He and Jacob were
descendants of Shem, oldest son of Noah.Misled christians

fail to comprehend this.This universal threat

is an unseen invisible rechoning so slyly ope...

I came across the news of the distribution of Darwins Origin of Species with Ray
Comfort's 50 page introduction. I think this is a worthy cause, but I got a
sick feeling in my stomach when I read some of Ray's points.

Were they incorrect points? Well that's not really the question here. Do Ray's
points give strong evidence that he didn't read Origin of Species?? I can't
say, but maybe he skimmed over it too quickly?

I'm about as biased as you can get when it comes to wanting to support Ray's
cause, and the intro itself doesn't clearly show that Ray didn't read the Origin
of Species, but after seeing some interviews on the Living Waters site, it's
very clear that he didn't read it. In the intro he touches on fish evolution,
and the formation of lungs. Did he not read page 151 and 152 of the same PDF
that has his introduction? On the 700 club interview he proposed the question
as if an individual fish would wa...

...a pastor paying attention to the actual text. It's more respect and
understanding than I thought I would get here (was honestly gearing up for
combat, and I seem to have warrented it! Sometimes, understanding comes of such
things).



I hope we can debate more, and more openly. I would actually appreciate hearing
what you have to say.



-Antitheist1

First of all, Atheism is NOT a faith. Secondly, I have noticed Mr. Dawkins book
on many of Bestsellers lists for weeks now, and today is the first I'm hearing
of anyone named Ray Comfort. You want to know how I became an Atheist? I grew up
going to church. I went to sunday school, sang in the choir. Then I got old
enought to think for myself. And I realized, what a load of crap I had been
listening to my whole life. And it had nothing to do with a science teacher in
high school, or a professor in University. It was because I took the time to
look at the facts, study the evidence and think for myself. Anywho who is buying
into the things they read on this site, or any other christian site, is ignorant
and unable to have an intellegent, individual though. Please do yourselves a
favor and view this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvZz_pxZ2lw

It is a debate with 2 Atheist and 2 members of the Catholic church. If you still

The answer, as was pointed out to me by a rather devout christian friend of
mine, to the question of why people are turning away from religion is, in fact;
RELIGION! How many heretic burnings did people put up with before they started
wondering if this god guy was as nice as they were told he was (on pain of
death)? How many families have to listen to picketers screaming 'god hates
fags!' during thier loved one's FUNERALS before they decide not to associate
with anyone like that? How many times do we have to be threatened and told of
our wrongness and guilt before we decide religions aren't our friends?



I'm thinking that payback's a b^&*h.

1) Heratical burnings were men killing men. God had nothing to do with it. It
is stupid to think otherwise. 2) Homosexuality is a sexual sin just as the
others are. And it has been judged. 3) if you were not told of your wrong then
you would not be guitly of them. That is what law is about! Fella you are
full of hate. I think you need cleansing! Anyone that rebells against God is
His enemy! The 10 comandments show you who is the enemy and who is not. If
anyone can follow them. THere is only 1 that can follow them. His name is
Jesus or Yeshua as you have pointed out.

...during those burnings in his name? Why couldn't he defend himself? I can
see the violence, what I see none of is this god. Nowhere. Not during the
Shoah, or Hiroshima. Not on the pages of a book. And not in the mirror.



Interesting side point, the 10 commandments seem to be verbatum transcriptions
from the Egyptian book of the dead...wierd...



And I'm not god's enemy. There is no god. I'm religion's enemy!

Anti-nowhare, Your precious theory of evolution also dictates that same sex
unions are an abomination. The theory clearly Dictates that a viable sex
partner is Required for you to pass on your genes. If same sex oganisms attempt
to do these things they cannot. It is impossible for them to do so. By your
theory it should not even be an alternative. If anything the very existance of
organisms that want to unite this way is a refutation of the theory as these
samples are outside the functioning and not regulated by it. Natural selection
simply and always removes them and thier genes.

So, instead of hating gays, and punishing them, and picketing thier funerals,
and harrassing thier families, wouldn't it be more effective to just let them be
gay? This has nothing to do with abomination, just natural selection doing what
it does.

I am not guilty of any of these things. I don't hate gays, never picketed any
of thier funerals, never hassased any of thier families. This is nothing more
than slander if is directed at me. You argue effectiveness. towards what end?
Thier actions are effect to do what exactly?

Natural selection has no pull on things that are outside the theory itself.
Homosexuality is not contained within the boundaries laid forth in the theory.
It simply does not exist. It cannot because they cannot pass on thier genes
naturally. The fact that they exists is an indication that evolution does not
exist as a result of natural selection NOT working on them.

...You forget that 'homosexual' often means 'bisexual,' and christians just
don't seem to care about the difference. Am I blaming you? As a representative
of christianity, do you deny that christians have done all the things I
mentioned, and more, up to and including killings?

Oh wait, I know what your argument will be; those people weren't REAL
christians, right? Just like the terrorists aren't REAL muslims. They're real
enough to cause harm, and they do it through the same philosophy.

...if god hates homosexuality, just exactly how do you explain those pesky,
hermaphroditic, gastropods? Yup, no male or female there, but they reproduce by
sexual reproduction, and THEY'RE ALL THE SAME SEX.



Hmmmmmmmm.....

Check out this NewScientist article on the topic that addresses Glen's claim
that homosexuality is evidence against evolution. It mentions the possibility
that a negative trait can remain in the gene pool because the gene that causes
the negative trait has other, more beneficial, effects. I feel compelled to
point out that if Glen was more familiar with the topic he was so enthusiastic
to declaim he would have known this already.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13674-evolut
ion-myths-natural-selection-cannot-explain-homosex uality.html

I find this to be very interesting. Doubt I'll spend much time reading it. But
there is not gene dicovered for this phenotype that is directly involved in
removing a subject from the gene pool. If the aforementioned gene was
beneficial it cannot be passed on other then is a heterozygotic carrier
mechanism. Heterozygotes never express said negative trait(?) or recessive gene.
Tom really try to think.

I thought of more. Natural selection has zero influence on choice. Homosexuality
is nothing more than a choice. This notion of hermaphrodites is complelling
indeed unless you come to the understanding that they don"t self fetilize.
There are plants that do that. Yet worms must wriggle next to a partner and
match up opposing genetailia in order to fertilize. Well, at least that's what
I have been educated about. I've never watched any worm sex.

Hermaphodite is not the "Same sex" they are both male and female
distinctively yet together in the same body. Named after Hermes and Aphrodite;
two greek gods.

...the possibility of...

These are very interesting arguements. Possible is not proof nor is it even
tangible. It is also possible Tom does not know what he is talking about. See,
possible is a scientific black hole.

This was not an ad homenim attack on Tom. I simply used the same statements with
his name attached to demonstrate the vacancy of the line of reason.

of Christians astound me. a man such as Andy can say a single word you people
don't agree with and you'll get all up in arms

on inhalejesus.blogspot.com i took a test that told me im going to hell and i am
fine with it because id rather be surrounded by fire, brimstone, and sin then by
ignorant fools

Tyler, you'd rather be burned unquencably, soured sulfer smelled to the point of
vomiting unquencably, and be seared with hate unquencably than to listen to
these putative ignorant fools try to save you from it? Who is the ingnorant
fool here? How can I expect you to listen to me or the word of God when you
don't even listen to youself?

the bible makes no mention of hell at all! That was from Dante's Inferno; a
poem. The Hebrew word is 'sheol' meaning the grave. Dead. As in 'the penalty
for sin is death.' Note, it is NOT everlasting life in torture, as G-man would
have us believe, even if you think the bible is as real as G-man seems to think
it is. Either way, it works out the same.

This site is policed from without! Mention

specfic words and automatically thier computer

shuts one down?

This is a very interesting site. It would be

well worth anyone's time to read of biblical works and listen to the videos. A
remark about

the Idumeans was completely out of thin air, sorry! Please keep up the good
work. Thanks.

Paul said: I became everything to everyone so I might perchance win some to the
Lord Jesus. He was a very learned fellow of his day and vehemently debated the
wiseckers of his time in an attempt to shed light to their foolishness which
they regarded as knowledge. If Ray can do the same, I say Go RAY!
But when all is said and done, the moment of truth is in the future when
Darwinists and atheists will get to stand b4 Jesus and hear their very words
condemn them to eternal damnation.
This is not a "theory" or a scare tactic, it's the cold hard truth. You
don't have to agree with it, but it will find you out at the appointed time.
I now have my case resting on the couch, pls don't disturb it.

Please explain the fact the ancient Idumeans,

EDOMITES,as mentioned by MALAKI, through ESAU

is hardly mentioned by christians to day?

Hogorina

You've been told that "evolution is just a theory", a guess, a hunch,
and not a fact, not proven. You've been misled. Keep reading, and in less than
two minutes from now you'll know that you've been misinformed. We're not going
to try and change your mind about evolution. We just want to point out that
"it's just a theory" is not a valid argument.

The Theory of Evolution is a theory, but guess what? When scientists use the
word theory, it has a different meaning to normal everyday use.1 That's right,
it all comes down to the multiple meanings of the word theory. If you said to a
scientist that you didn't believe in evolution because it was "just a
theory", they'd probably be a bit puzzled.

In everyday use, theory means a guess or a hunch, something that maybe needs
proof. In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It's a
well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanati...

If what you say is true about the scientific community, I can't help but point
out to you that this is A perfect example of how the worldy flesh is corrupted
and altered by satans tacticts. What sly way to completely change the meaning of
A word to fit your explanation. My prayer for you is that you except Christ as
your Savior and start to read the only truth there really is, and that is the
Holy Bible!!!!!!!!

You say: What sly way to completely change the meaning of A word to fit your
explanation.

It's not sly, a scientific theory is supported by an abundance of facts. This
has always been the case. In any case the evidential can't be slyly changed - go
and look at the fossil evidence for yourself in the natural history museum and
decide for yourself. 'Only a theory' is not an arguement for creationism. Saying
'only a theory' does not argue against anything you need to show POSITIVE
evidence of your own.



Thanks Andy.

and i have yet to see a transitional form... Even heard someone comment about
that who is an old-earther, why is there not 1 transitional form in the Chicago
museum of natural history? (other then the debunked lucy), in fact having the
discredited Lucy, and not mentioning the truth behind it proves how bad their
case is.

Lucy has not been not discredited. Every fossil is a transitional form. We are
transitional forms between our parents and our children. I think you have
misunderstood how evolution works. One animal does not change into another over
one generation, it happens over time. When one species splits 2 ways, by
geographical methods say, 2 new species will evolve. The original species will
be the common ancestor and you will have 2 new species separated by their
position. You may not find the common ancestor in the fossil record but does not
mean the didn't exist.



Thanks Andy.

Andy is another poster that really makes me laugh. Maybe those zits are the
vesitgal buds forming a new limb or face part. Nonsense coming from a master at
his art, falsehood.

We are all transitional froms. Man alive Andy, I think I am gonna start
writting your stuff down and go on the road as a stand-up comic. Wow this stuff
is good.

Glen, if you are using my stuff for your comedy show you need to send me 10% of
the earnings. That can be your tithing.



Thanks Andy.

tithing goes to God not man. You are not God. But funny nevertheless.

I think it is very exciting to see how much knowledge about God you have. You
even know about tithing. Now you have been convicted of having no excuse when
your time comes. There is a vast difference between knowledge about God and
Knowing God personnally. The dif-ference is a gulf that you cannot cross,
unless you know God; unless you have accepted the cross. Andy I wish I could
unblind your eyes but that is an issue between you and God. All you have to do
is accept his payment of your sin debt.

ain't it funny how a man collects, banks, invests, and spends god's tithes?

God's tithe is you...it cannot be sepnt for anything but God's glory. You are
badly mislead. Believing the lie you will search in vain for answers and
fingding non will place yourself about the Almighty God and be condemned for it.

So all you have is threats and denials? Gotta be more to this religion thing
than that!

Truth is not a threat nor a denial. You on the other hand....

...note how those tithes seem to be spent on luxury sedans and crystal
cathedrals...which is what I'm sure we can both agree is what god really wants!

I find it interesting that when God takes care of His own children by giving
them all they need A-1 can only despise it. Now I don't care much for the
televangeists that have all this money invested in these overtly ornate
cathedrals and cars and the like. It is a real turn off for me...but this is a
personal feeling not a Christ centered feeling. These groups must be looked at
closer, say how do they spend thier money in the public sector. That will tell
you what is in thier hearts. Also notice the word SEEM. A-1 can only see as fact
that which SEEMS to be real. No wonder he cannot accept truth or Jesus.

I wonder which book is outselling the other.

I bet a thousand dollers that Dawkins book is out selling Ray's, probably due to
the fact that Creation is alread scientificly discredited in almost everything
it does. So that is just a wild guess, but then again...

Charles Stephens comments really make me laugh out loud sometimes. I mean
really laugh. Ray is giving "his" book away not selling it and Dawkins
is selling "his" book. Charlie boy I am not gonna take you up on that
bet. It is a sucker bet. And not because science has any-thing at all to do
with it. Science cannot discredit the very thing it studies. It is profoundly
dumb to make such a statement. Again, science cannot discredit the very thing
is works hard to describe; namely creation. Sorry fella. Try that line on
another mark. This one ain't buyin'.

I'm just kinda noticing that Ray hasn't been able to give away a tenth of the
number of copies Dawkins has SOLD! Nothing like quality, huh?

Anti-again-with-you, Quality has nothing to do with it. The point you cannot
see is that Ray is not profiting from this but Dawkins is. Ray is actually
taking quite a bashing for the 1/10 of the books. That is a pretty good
advertisement record if you ask me. Oh, and Dawkin's ain't selling these books.
His publisher is. Your observation is that people of this world refuse to
accept a free gift! That is not news. People have been rejecting Jesus' free
gift for centuries. Just like you!

Nothing special or new.

Now why (see 'pear of pain' on Wikipedia) would anyone want to think religion is
bad?

Argue religion all you want. God is good. There is no darkness in Him at all.
You on the other hand....

Are you going to accuse me of being a demon in disguise next?



You know, G-man, you still have nothing but the assumption that I'm somehow evil
because I don't believe what you do. Have you not heard me at all? My argument
has been entirely about the harmful effects of religion! Since I'm pretty sure
there's no god (mathematically impossible to prove a negative, I must grudgingly
admit), and quite certain that if there is, I wouldn't follow the one laid out
in the bible, I have no quarrel with it/him/her/them/none or all of the above.
There's nothing to fight there.

...Glen here did indeed accuse me of being a demon! He then tried to
e-excorsize me! How did I ever decide to stop being religious?

nope! I certainly did not. your ears are broke.

What is interesting in Brent's statement is that the christian must read the
non-christian stuff in order to creat or formulate an agreeable arguement to
disuade the non-bliever.



Nonsense! It is not biblical. The Holy Spirit lead Jesus to answer the
Pharisee's trying to trap him and will lead us in the same way. Interestingly
Jesus usually answered in a way that foiled the question by attacking the
underlying lie.



There are those Christians though that have been brought out of this line of
thinking. They ave already consumed this poison and have been cleansed of teh
lies by turning to Jesus. Jesus them uses thier intimate understandings to lead
the way in the battle. Not because they know somethng Jesus doesn't. It is
because they can now testify along with the Holy Spirit to who Jesus is and the
work Jesus has done.



It is the testimony that is important.



All Paul did was to p...

...it's basically right because you say it is? Sorry, saying it's true and
proving it's true are two very different things. No amount of 'testimony'
phazes me. In my line of work, one learns very quickly just exactly how
valuable 'eyewitness testimony' really is...

Anti, are you a CIA agent? That would explain the false info part! Hee, hee.
Now Anti-another-go-at-cha, you can laugh at that one too. Come on. It was
funny. You will not accept the proof! You have not accepted the proof, nor
will you in the future accept the proof given. So what can I give you? You
will give proof no more regard than you currently do. It is pointless.

Just a rabbit will do! It IS pointless, because you have no proof, just
anecdotes. That's all there ever seems to be. My problem is the killing
because of the anecdotes.

No your problem is killing because of Sin. You claim to have tasted the
goodness of God and have now rejected it. Placing you into everlasting
condemnation. There is no path of slavation for you. Herbrews6:4-6.

...I thought the old testament was defunct! And you're quite right, religion IS
a path of 'slavation!'

...admit a mistake! Hebrews is indeed in the N.T.(musta forgot...getting belted
for eating bacon tends to blur all the religious abuse) Which still says
nothing for G-man here. Where was it written that "With god, all things are
possible?"



You, Glen, deem yourself worthy to tell god what he can and cannot do?

Twist it, baby! Twist it! Your are almost...aw never mind! I have not told
God to do anything. God though keeps all His decrees. You are right all things
are possible with God. Although, when He says He isn't gonna do something it is
done! I deem my self dead. By the way it is not uncommon for demons to use
scripture. Satan himself tried to tempt Jesus using them. The one thing they
will not do is claim Jesus as the Word of God come in the flesh. They will not
let you do it either! They own you. I have been given what to tell you by the
One who has the authority to claim Worthy.

...debunk the whole demon thingy right here, right?





Jesus is the Word of God come in the flesh.



I even said it out loud to make sure the claim was made in full.

See? I'm not a demon, G-man. Just an athiest. And the scripture you claim is
totally without flaw was altered for political purposes at the council of
Nycaea. There was an actual vote put forward to determine if it would give the
ruling Ceasar more power if jesus was a god or a man. The bible was altered to
show the result of that vote.

And did Jesus come to save you?

But a guy on the internet told me that I'm doomed anyways. yashua might have at
least come to say a condolence, though. But alas, as always; nothing.

ANd there it is! A-1 does not know that Jesus came in the flesh to save him
from the power of Satan! This is the definative proof of the actions of
darkness in his life. Since he does not even beleive there is a God he cannot
say he came in the flesh and most certainly he cannot say the purpose was to ave
him.

And most certainly I have never said A-1 is a demon only that he is demonized.
They are chewing him apart.

Brent, I'm just passing through the site and saw your comment. I do read some
science texts-not very many, though, because I prefer novels. I did like Bill
Bryson's Short History of Nearly Everything.



The reason I don't read Dawkins, though, is that he takes an antagonistic view
of my culture in his books. While I respect his choices, I don't see the need to
read a book by a man who thinks that religion is 'society's greatest evil'.
However, I will admit that he seems like a decent guy in his interviews.

I feel the need to defend Dawkins on the antagonism issue. Imagine, if you
would, a world without religion. You see, without religion, I'm actually quite
happy, productive, family-oriented, and in great awe of the universe, not to
mention intensely curious about the 96% of it that we are currently unable to
even detect. I know, and show love, even to strangers, and I have been able to
discern that killing people is something to be avoided at nearly any cost. My
life has meaning. This is what religion promises, and I have it all without
religion.



But what would the rest of the world lose without religion? Well, 9/11,
Somalia, Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, 'Blood Atonement,' the D.C. snipers, and the
rape of alter boys. Oh, and the 30% of your money commanded to be given in
'tithes.'



I agree with Dawkins wholeheartedly. I take up my fight here, not with any of
you personally, but with religion as a...

Again Anti you are sadly mislead. God did not do any of those horrible things
you have listed! 30% what the heck church do you go to? Don't you know you are
the prize? Money will be burned up into nuthhin' honey! Religions promise just
what you have said but Christ promises something entirely different. And it is
totally lost to you!

You say god made everything. Then you say he has nothing to do with the bad
stuff. So which is it? The fact that there is bad stuff means that someone who
made it all is also responsible for the bad stuff. And christ promised weeping
and gnashing of teeth. Pain, death, guilt, fear. Guess that's all we get,
'cause this god guy has claim on the good...

Boring.

So, did this God guy make the bad stuff? He created everything, right? How can
perfect good make evil?

Darkness is the complete absence of light. Darkness has no deffinition with out
the first definition of light. AS a result, darkness is an abscence of light.
Light is the primary, dark is the result of having no light. This is the way
with Good and evil. Good is the primary and evil is the abscence of good.
Satan is the father of evil becasue he is deviod of the Spirit of God. He has
rebelled and been removed from God's prescence. God can no more be evil than
light can be dark. Your questions demonstrate your rebellion.

My questions demonstrate questions. Tell me, if god says not to kill, but
because he is god, he's allowed to kill, does that mean that when he tells us
not to lie, he's exempt from that rule, too? In the bible, when people wanted
proof, god was all too happy to grant it. And yet now, as always; nothing.

I most cetainly am not wrong. Your questions are obviously arrogantly and
boastfully presented. I'd would not even show myself to you. Why would God?

And God has provided the evidence. His Name is Jesus. Jesus has also informed
us that we will seek for more but only the sign of Johna would be given.

The question was how can perfectly good make not good (evil). God did not.
Satan did that. Satan rebelled and forsook God in his life. God did not do that!
What you want to know is how can an all knowing God allow it. The reason is
love.

It's too bad more Christians don't read the books put out by Dawkins, Eldridge,
etc. which espouse a point of view contrary to their own positions. Only by
doing so can we understand what they believe, where they stand, and be able to
put together coherent arguments to counter them. It is also the only way to
find the logical or other faults in their arguments. You might be surprised to
find that many of the evolutionist authors admit they have to take evolution on
faith because they have no evidence to support it as anything but a theory, and
that they continue with it because they don't want to believe in a god, let
alone the God.

Brent, I must vehemently disagree with you. Quite the opposite is true. The
Bible NEVER admonishes Christians to "study the works of darkness",
which is what "books put out by Dawkins, Eldridge, etc." clearly are.
Rather, we are told, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman
that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2
Timothy 2:15) Furthermore, we are to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful
works of darkness, but rather, reprove them", where to "reprove" is
to "make manifest" with "light" (Ephesians 5:11-13) That
"light" is GOD'S WORD, specifically, God's law! (Psalm 119:105; Proverbs
6:23) Those who are trained in "spotting a counterfeit" don't do so by
studying the counterfeit,

but the genuine. If Christians would spend more time prayerfully studying the
Bible, having a true heart for the lost as their Lord J...

See, it's posts like the above that drive me to fight religion as a whole. Hey,
sure, the bible is immutable, unquestionable, and exclusively the one true word
of almighty doG. It's the only source of information thou shalt ever read.



Except for that little problem of learning to read...you know, the alphabet you
write with was developed by Muslims and Roman Pegans? Such sinners, they! Thou
hast better gouge out thine eyes than use thier fonts of darkness! No,
seriously! Gouge out thine eyes! Save yourself from seeing such heresy! And
don't touch unclean soil! And that shirt thou art wearing of cotton and
polyester be-eth an abomination!



Or you could admit that maybe things aren't black and white.

"How could he not stand up for his faith?"

I've read before that Dawkins will not take part in debates with people such as
Ray as he is of the opinion that by granting a debate will legitimise their
opinions. Dawkins has said he has no interest in arguing with somebody who is
"utterly ignorant" on a topic and that it would only serve to advance
the case put forward by Ray.

I was not a fan of Dawkins, but I have been watching some of his debates on
youtube and despite his very hostile nature, he is a very intelligent well
spoken man and his arguments do seem compelling.

Regarding evolution, logically some elements seemed fantastical to me
originally. However, I have been listening to a podcast called the Skeptics
Guide to The Universe - the presenter Steven Novella does explain away some of
the confusion in a very clear easy to understand way. I love that this subject
has become so popu...

Just read TGSOE and is an excellent read. Richard a good film to watch on
youtube is:

Carl Sagan 'we are star stuff'. This outlines evolution in a diagramatic way
that is easy to understand. Don't know why Brent encourages Christians to read
more Dawkins and Eldridge and then misunderstands the word 'theory' which
Dawkins explains at length in his book - that is the difference between an
ordinary idea and a proper scientific theory. Evolution is a proper scientific
theory supported by many facts.

Great argument! Did you study debate at Harvard?

Anti, hello! Yes! That's all they could teach me, though. Not much more on
thier plate than that. Yale was a lot better. But the women were ugly. So I
went home. At least farm girls know what is means to be alive. Now where did
you matriculate?

FYI:never been to Havard nor Yale just pullin' yer leg.

Ring-around-the-rosies with an athiest is a lot of fun for me.

but should you want to get cerial I gots plenty of milk for that!

Not a debate at all, but I do appreciate the laugh!

Richard Dawkins has already gone through alot of debates, and in many, videos
were edited to make it seem like he did not know the anwser to a question. The
reason Dawkins did not go into that debate is because he had already debunked
creationism and does not want another edited video out there because many people
won't check to get thier facts straight.

One question for all of our friends out there who don't believe there's a God of
the universe. Where (and i'll keep it simple silly goose, "kiss" for
those in the know) did all this stuff come from??? Second law (T,D) is that when
something makes a dirrectional move it moves something else. When you throw a
stick of TNT into a printing press it destroys it, not bring it together. So the
big bang and evolution by there own discription prove them false, sorry kids got
to go save some lost souls today (got some new tracts in the other day that are
screaming to get out their) keep up the good fight Ray and happy birthday, 60
isn't bad I know someone who is 89 and still preachin the gospel. To all the
atheist out there, love to hear what you have to say. My e-mail is at the top,
lets see what you have to say.

...and the only reasonable answer is; I don't know. We've gotten to within a
few pico-seconds of the big-bang in terms of physics...but there is indeed a gap
science can't account for. Yet. But we're looking.



Ever hear a minister say that?

I really hope we never creat a big bang! No one will be around to record it
much less take notes!



Ha, HA, HA. man that was well worth the read. Belly laughs make a man just feel
great!



Thanks Anti-theist! You're the best!